Takate-kote double wrist ties

Posted on Tue, 26 November 2013

Until tonight, there was a fascinating thread running on Fetlife's Kinbaku Group discussing the wrist tie in the TK and specifically Marai Masato's technique but for some reason, it was closed for further discussion. I say "for some reason" as the stated reason doesn't seem to justify closing the thread. It appears to be a rather curious response to alleged "advertising" and "off topic" comments by my good self.

I don't claim to be guilt free in the past on this charge but I have tried to stay on topic and references have been relevant and requested. Sure there is a commercial interest. This happens to be my day job. Unfortunately, the things I need for my life are not given away for free and I expect the complainers want paying for their day job. Funny, eh?

They should be working for free like they expect me to do. Shame on them! If there is anyone who wishes to sponsor me, please get in touch. Sadly, the offers so far have only been emails from generous individuals with fanciful names from darkest Africa asking to process many millions of dollars via my bank account for a large commission... I think not.

Anyway, if certain words were against their rules, why not just delete the offending sections and not a lot of free advice about how to achieve dominance in a wrist tie, for example? At the most delete the post but leave the thread open. It might be closed justifiably to terminate aggressive argument but it is still better to deal with individuals, not the thread. If the discussion has nothing further to gained and has become circular, it should be closed.

This discussion had only touched on a couple of nawashi and only Marai Masato in partial depth. Oddly, there were those who could have contributed significantly due to being Japanese speakers who could translate the key parts of the audio or text. It was like getting blood from a stone. I was told to "Go fish" for information. For a non-Japanese speaker, it is very hard to fish productively or with any certainty. All that leads to is theories and I have plenty of those. This is what I hoped to gain from these questions but all I got was what felt like evasiveness. It was a case of being told to figure it out myself or that it was impossible for the answer to have meaning without understanding the tutorial in its entirety and the context in which a tie was being tied, even down to the historical and cultural background. I'm sure that would be no disadvantage but I'm sure understanding his words would be helpful. I doubt he was just talking for his own amusement.

It is quite possible that this is merely a way of consuming rope. It certainly seems charateristic of  However, I think it has merits from an engineering point of view. Not only does the second wrist binding provide better support to the wrists, it is also better for preventing the wrists X-ing downwards. A single binding provides and axis or fulcrum about which wrists can scissor. . T think it is a whle lot likely to happen with this configuration. Whether this is a consideration for Marai or a lucky by-product, only the man himself can say.

Marai Masato wrist tie

Nina made an interesting comment as an experienced model and a rigger of surprising ability for one so new to the art. She constantly impresses me with her insights and inspires my research. Here's her thoughts: If the model doesn't possess good upper arm strength, like her, she prefers to allow her arms to slide inwards with her palms flat against her torso to relieve the pressure of the wraps. She then prevents further movement by pushing her elbows and arms back, bracing against her torso, so her arms form an X parallel to the floor if she is upright.

Here's a translation of the voce-over from the video kindly provided by Mack, Reina's partner:

"Wrap the rest of the rope around the wrists and tie off. Any left over rope length can be adjusted by wrapping around the wrist. The knot you can do above the wrist ; smaller is more beautiful. And if the lady is lying down it doesn't get in the way. The Chest rope and Wrist rope; Y-shape is better than T-shape. To finish off it's better to put the ends between the rope and hide it."

Some models don't know how much pressure to release and can end up with arms pressed well in and the wraps losing tension. There is also a good chance that the wrists will drop into an X and tighten the wrist tie. Moving elbows in an attempt to prevent such inward movement, she reports, can result in excessive uncomfortable pressure on the thumbs and make changing position of the arms hard. Models with better upper arm strength are more able to resist this force might find locking their fists into the crook of the opposite elbow helpful or, even lock with their thumbs.

La Gorgone finds the latter works for her but she has upper arm strength and very flexible shoulders which means she must make an effort to stop her shoulder blades meeting! Not all people work the same, so ties need to be chosen with care and adapted to the individual. Interestingly, he didn't pay a lot of attention to his wrap heights or spacing as we can see here, both height and spacing are quite uneven. Who knows? Maybe it was an off day or just one of those Sod's Law things that happens on video? Maybe we are too pedantic? Maybe he is saying don't make them uneven like this or wrap height may vary between these parameters.

Unfortunately, I can't understand Japanese and don't have a translation bar the odd comment. I can only apply what I am told by those who are said to know or can extrapolate from that. As has already been pointed out by somebody who owns one of his books, an example I quoted relating to a wrist tie was how NOT to tie one and is indicated by a big red X in the book. Sadly, the video had no such visual indicator so I was unaware that it was a deliberately bad example. The fact that the two loops seem to fall neatly either side of the stem does look like they are both supposed to be part of a pair. The result is very symmetrical and the friction on the TK wrap mirror each other exactly which I do not believe is coincidence.

Given the quantity of rope to consume, I doubt he'd use it up in this way if it was merely a question of getting rid of it. Why not continue the functionality of the tie? I believe that is what he is doing here. If he didn't make the second wrist loop, how would the first (half) friction function? IMHO, it would be wholly inadequate. The finishing of the second binding consolidates the friction and the stem.

Consider the result if he had run out of rope before making the second wrist loop and closing it all! The top wrap would not be isolated and thus the TK would thus lack good integrity. Anyway, I couldn't resist re-opening a new thread with the opening post below.

"I am saddened that an interesting and informative thread has been closed with this comment:

*Moderator's note: This thread is closed. I have repeatedly asked Esinem not to post off-topic links and not to advertise himself in this group. He continues to ignore these requests. His posts above which contain the off-topic links and advertisements will be deleted according to group rules. Thank you for understanding.*

In my defence: I replied to Sankara who asked how I created an effect with "a single rope and a wrist tie" and appeared to want me to establish the provenance of my knowledge. In support of this I listed my teachers, all top Japanese nawashi. This question was very much on topic as some the moderators themselves raised the intent of a tie and the scenario as being vital factors in discussing it. In fact, it was implied that the technical details were irrelevant without such context! I disagreed saying that my question was not dissimilar to asking if the 3rd rope of the OS 3-RTK was functional. Yes, it is. It provides rigidity. Is the macrame after step 27 functional? No. It is to tidily consume the rest of the rope. I think my question regarding Marai's intent is the same and can easily be answered. I'm puzzled as to why it is being made so complicated?

As requested by the mods, I specifically did not place direct hyperlinks to my site (even making note of this in my post) although I referred to it and my DVD as resources, since these were part of the proof I offered and many of the articles are free. I then placed a link, deliberately not to my site and with no advertising for me in deference to the mods' request, to a Vimeo video showing the techniques I used. I offered to explain things I had learned from my teachers more fully on the thread for everyone's benefit in an effort to respond to his frustration that such information was not freely shared and to the requests from the mods that I post more information direct on the forum. I then went on to give quite a detailed explanation of how Osada Steve taught control. Again, it is a shame they have chosen to deprive you of that information. I have found it very central to my style.

When somebody asks me to answer a question I do my best to help and don't just say go figure it out yourself. I think I have made all reasonable efforts to comply and that this thread closure is draconian. It would have been quite sufficient to remove the link that at a stretch could be regarded as "advertising" or "off-topic". I wonder why you have been deprived of the opportunity to learn something? It seems somewhat contrary to the stated objective of this group...and even more so if this new opportunity is denied us. If the mods have any belief in free speech, I assume that a few of you will be able to share your thoughts in this news ad free. If on the other hand, I am being censored, won't hear much from me here but you can be damn sure you will elsewhere ;-) "

In under an hour, this reply was posted:

KinbakuGroupBot: 5 minutes ago

"Hello Esinem, Defense noted. You continue to link to off-topic content after I have repeatedly told you such content is off-topic for this group. The focus of this group is on one subject and one subject alone: discussion of SM and bondage in Japan. Your links to your own personal essays on what you think about bondage are nice. but they are off-topic here. Referring people to your DVD is self-advertising, and it is off-topic here. You may discuss yourself in any of the dozens of rope groups on Fetlife where such discussion is on-topic, so no one is deprived of anything you have to say. But posts in this group must be on-topic for this group. I have had this conversation again and again with you, and I believe that you understand both the concept of this group and what is acceptable content in posts here. You are welcome to continue posting, but please avoid off-topic content or such posts will continue to be removed.

Sorry, this discussion has been fermée. Fermée is french for toast. We are multi-cultural like that."

Interestingly, I see no right of reply was given. So much for free speech and a right to fair trial by ones peers! It might have been better for them to deal with the poster who posed the allegedly off-topic question? The really interesting question is why the draconian step of closing the tread? Why be so evasive in exploring the possibility that this second wrist wrap was functional, especially since some of the mods had translated the material in question and had apparently had great insights from their study? If I'm wrong and it's not primarily functional, why doesn't Marai choose to lose the rope around the wrists and not elsewhere. Is it just stylistic or is there some advantage to be gained? I suspect there is whether intended or not. It would be useful to test and explore this. Feel free to reopen the debate here via the comments.